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  #1  
Old 06-10-2013, 09:49 PM
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Default M88A Mini-Tokarev

Anyone else drooling over this?!?

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Zastava M88A Mini Tokarev, 9mm semi auto pistol, New





New model M88A Zastava Mini-Tokarev semi auto pistols in 9mm. Black finish with a 3.7" barrel, single action, slide mounted safety lever, and 2ea 8rd mags. Made in Serbia by Zastava. New in box.
And here I am negotiating to buy a Springfield 1911 Range Officer (another sweet handgun). Why do these things always happen to me?!?

Cheers! M2
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  #2  
Old 06-11-2013, 05:37 AM
tk421992 tk421992 is offline
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No because I have a M57A which is easy to conceal. That and the PPZ is hopefully coming out within this year or next year. 20 shots of 7.62x25 supposedly.

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Old 06-11-2013, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by tk421992 View Post
No because I have a M57A which is easy to conceal. That and the PPZ is hopefully coming out within this year or next year. 20 shots of 7.62x25 supposedly.
Therein lies the problem with both the M57A (which I have and love) and the PPZ...the ammo!

7.62x25 has dried up and is very expensive, at least the M88A uses 9mm which is relatively cheap and easy to find.

Also, if you are carrying a M57A for self defense, I am curious as to what kind of ammo you're using? Considering its velocity, I suspect it would be prone to over penetrating unless you are using JHPs.

While great guns to shoot, I would never consider a Tok for SD. There are far too many better options out there...
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:20 AM
tk421992 tk421992 is offline
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Originally Posted by majormadmax View Post
Therein lies the problem with both the M57A (which I have and love) and the PPZ...the ammo!

7.62x25 has dried up and is very expensive, at least the M88A uses 9mm which is relatively cheap and easy to find.

Also, if you are carrying a M57A for self defense, I am curious as to what kind of ammo you're using? Considering its velocity, I suspect it would be prone to over penetrating unless you are using JHPs.

While great guns to shoot, I would never consider a Tok for SD. There are far too many better options out there...
7.62x25 isn't expensive. Surplus isn't cheap, but the production ammo isn't expensive. Besides, I really don't like shooting any surplus ammo. Reloading berdan primed steel cased ammo, or even berdan primed brass cased ammo is just more difficult than reloading a spent PPU case. Right now, at the height of the ammo drought, 7.62x25 can be bought for about 40 - 50 cents per shot. In my area, that's a good price. I switched from .357SIG to 7.62x25 because of how much cheaper commercial 7.62x25 is than .357SIG.

I'm not carrying the M57A yet, I have to do a long list of things like qualify with a shooting test, I'd like to take a class in intermediate pistol/self defense, and it costs money.

Any FMJ can go clean through someone if it dosen't make contact with a bone. Read Shooting to Live if you don't believe me, they talk about FMJ .45ACP and lead .455 Webley going clean through people. The only kind of ammo anyone should be using for carry or home defense is hollow points. I have not seen one case, at least before a Rhode Island court, where a person defending themselves was thrown in jail because they used hollow points. Its the question of whether or not lethal force was "necessary".

I switched from a Glock to a Tokarev for all purposes because I like the platform more. I have a thread about it. The Tokarev is easier, cheaper and more logical for me to live with. If you already have a dozen or so pistols, then no, the Tokarev isn't probably the best choice. But if you're like me and just get along with Eastern European guns and anything that begins "7.62x", the Tokarev is the pistol to carry. Maybe a Makarov, but I just prefer the ballistics of 7.62x25 and the design and look of the Tokarev.

And like I said, the PPZ should be along sometime soon.
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tk421992 View Post
7.62x25 isn't expensive. Surplus isn't cheap, but the production ammo isn't expensive. Besides, I really don't like shooting any surplus ammo. Reloading berdan primed steel cased ammo, or even berdan primed brass cased ammo is just more difficult than reloading a spent PPU case. Right now, at the height of the ammo drought, 7.62x25 can be bought for about 40 - 50 cents per shot. In my area, that's a good price. I switched from .357SIG to 7.62x25 because of how much cheaper commercial 7.62x25 is than .357SIG.

I'm not carrying the M57A yet, I have to do a long list of things like qualify with a shooting test, I'd like to take a class in intermediate pistol/self defense, and it costs money.

Any FMJ can go clean through someone if it dosen't make contact with a bone. Read Shooting to Live if you don't believe me, they talk about FMJ .45ACP and lead .455 Webley going clean through people. The only kind of ammo anyone should be using for carry or home defense is hollow points. I have not seen one case, at least before a Rhode Island court, where a person defending themselves was thrown in jail because they used hollow points. Its the question of whether or not lethal force was "necessary".

I switched from a Glock to a Tokarev for all purposes because I like the platform more. I have a thread about it. The Tokarev is easier, cheaper and more logical for me to live with. If you already have a dozen or so pistols, then no, the Tokarev isn't probably the best choice. But if you're like me and just get along with Eastern European guns and anything that begins "7.62x", the Tokarev is the pistol to carry. Maybe a Makarov, but I just prefer the ballistics of 7.62x25 and the design and look of the Tokarev.

And like I said, the PPZ should be along sometime soon.
I think 50-$1 a round for surplus handgun ammo is expensive, if you've got sources for cheap Tok ammo please share as not only is the stuff hard to find both locally and on the Internet, the prices are nowhere near where they were in the days of buying spam cans for $80.

Maybe when you compare it to another relatively obscure round as .357 SIG I can understand, but against more common calibers as 9mm or .45ACP it is expensive.

I am well aware of the characteristics of FMJ vs JHP, 25 years in the military and several years working in security and law enforcement after that have introduced me to numerous studies on the effectiveness of specific calibers and bullets.

But where did anyone claim that using JHP for SD could result in legal issues? That myth has been floating around for years, but I have yet to see one instance where the use of JHP has resulted in any excessive force charges. Considering how much more powerful almost any rifle is compared to a handgun, it would never be an issue.

I do have "a dozen or so pistols" (much more, actually) in basically every caliber around (to include the .455 Webley you mentioned), and get to shoot other weapons with local and Federal law enforcement agencies; so I've got a lot broad experience to chose from. When it comes to a carry weapon, my choice is the Springfield XD in .45 ACP. I have several of those pistols from the original XD Service, a single-stack XDs and a XDM-45 5.25" Comp Series; and all are excellent SD weapons. I would (and do) entrust my life with any and off of them.

But if the Tok works for you, then great; but it is not really a modern firearm by any standard and I for one want the best equipment possible especially as my life may depend on it.
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:20 AM
tk421992 tk421992 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majormadmax View Post
But if the Tok works for you, then great; but it is not really a modern firearm by any standard and I for one want the best equipment possible especially as my life may depend on it.
It was designed after the M1911 and M1911A1 and after the snubbie revolver. People still carry those. If it works, don't fix it.
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:54 AM
meanmrmustard meanmrmustard is offline
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I will add that I agree with TK's posts, however...

There are two quasi-popular chamberings out there that I prefer to carry in FMJ guise for SD purposes: .380 acp and 9x18.

I wouldn't carry FMJ in 762x25, not when it's more than enough to pass through a person, and hit a nondesirable object, like a kid.
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Old 06-11-2013, 06:13 PM
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I have to say due to pricing and availability I swapped out my Polish TTC for a Norinco 213 in 9mm. I wont look back. Its pretty damn accurate too. I also had a tough time with the corrosive ammo rusting up my Tok pretty quick. Like I said...9mm for me all day long.

That small 9mm Tok does look quite nasty though. I may "need" one haha
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Old 06-12-2013, 11:57 PM
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I carry a S&W Bodyguard for concealed carry. But come SHTF you better believe I will use my Tok over any other pistol. Penetrates body armor and hopefully will kill him and the guy behind him.
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