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  #11  
Old 01-06-2012, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by White Tiger View Post
Thanks Gopguy - I have heard the original 7.62 Nagant wasn't as anemic a round as the current loads - and that the pressures of that original round are very close to the pressures of 32 magnum...also that the more stout brass used for the magnum loads keeps the case from splitting inside the cylinder?
The round is weak, all of them. Really accurate though. I shoot 32 SW, magnums, and the standard 38R. I use a little transparent tape to make loose cases fit more snug to eliminate case bulging and ejection issues.
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  #12  
Old 01-06-2012, 05:20 PM
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Nice pistol
and einheit I didnt know you read russian
I speak all the Germanic languages, Polish, Slav, Russian (not real well but enough to get by in Russia) , some Finn, french, and Gullah. I also talk a lot of shyte! I have a southern accent that hinders many of my language skills and sounds funny. Except Gullah, I fit right in.
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  #13  
Old 01-07-2012, 06:08 AM
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Metalurgy, age and the fact we are stuffing a slightly over sized slug down the bore is a concern. I would still stick to the original fodder and or learn to reload it.
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  #14  
Old 01-07-2012, 08:43 AM
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Metalurgy, age and the fact we are stuffing a slightly over sized slug down the bore is a concern. I would still stick to the original fodder and or learn to reload it.
the S&W 32, and magnums are very safe in the pistol. The pressures are nowhere near dangerous like the 30 mauser/7,62 tok. Those are no-nos.
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  #15  
Old 08-07-2012, 02:36 PM
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Default Range Report on 32 H&R Mag VS 7.62 Nagant

I can confirm that I have fired 32 H&R Mgnum...but only after doing some extensive reading. The original, imperial designed pistol was designed for a stouter version of the 7.62 Nagant round - but after the revolution the Soviets developed a target round, apparently to cut some costs...it is nearly impossible to find any of the original 7.62 Nagant rds, and if you can you probably wouldn't want to fire them, as they're now collectors items.

The round most people associate with the Nagant revolver, are the very plentiful target rounds developed by the Soviets, sometime after the revolution in 1917.

According to "Cartridges of the World", here are the pressures for the various rounds/calibers that many suggest can be fired through the Nagant Revolver:

Caliber: 7.62 Nagant (original)
FPS: 1100
Ft/Lbs: 290
Bullet Wt: 108

Caliber: 32 H&R Magnum
FPS: 1030
Ft/Lbs: 225
Bullet Wt: 95

Caliber: 32 S&W
FPS: 705
Ft/Lbs: 115
Bullet Wt: 98

Caliber: 32 Long
FPS: 705
Ft/Lbs: 115
Bullet Wt: 98

According to Fiocchi ammo box (and they reference the Russian specs):

Caliber: 7.62 Nagant (milsurp or Fiocchi)
FPS: 700 to 750
Ft/Lbs: 115
Bullet Wt: 108

I bought some old 7,62 Nagant, 108gr MilSurp Yellow Box Russian ammo marked "CCCP" (on-line at J&G Sales for $6.67/14 rd box, including shipping) and some Federal .32 H&R Magnum, 85gr JHP (20rd box/$21.99). I was visitinig with the old Marine (my dad) and we decided to head out to the range and try it.

We noted a significant difference in the "feel" of the two different rounds when firing it - the Russian stuff made a pop and barely moved your hand when you fired. Fairly accurate.

The Federal 32 H&R Magnum was more stout, though not hard or unpleasant. The report sounded like a 38 Special. I think the difference was due to the lighter bullet wt coupled with the magnum load - which boosts the muzzle velocity slightly (1120 - but remember the original Nagant rd deliverd 1100 FPS with a 108 gr flat nosed lead bullet - and the gas seal created slightly more chamber pressure). The box clearly describes the 85gr jacketed hollow point as "Personal Defense" - I can defenitely attest to the extra kick, but there is a LOT of Russian Steel to deal with the higher FPS - this could DEFINITELY be used for personal defense.

We did notice that some of the casings did expand in the chamber, but were not difficult to clear. In reading about the Russian milsurp ammo, the gas seal ammo actually was designed with a taper towards the projectile, which allowed it to expand at the end of cylinder - indicating (to me) that the more powerful (original) Russian ammo produced similar back-pressures. The 32 Federal H&R has no gas seal, and no taper, so the simiilar chamber pressure escapes around the cylinder wheel, rather than down the barrel - which changes the point of expansion, yielding the bulged cases in the middle, not at the ends, like the weird gas seal casings...

Federal, 85gr, Jacketed Hollow Point Specs:

Caliber: 32 H&R Magnum JHP
FPS: 1120
Ft/Lbs: 225
Bullet Wt: 85

I can tell you that the milsurp Russian ammo was nowhere near as powerful as the H&R, but I wasn't using a chrono - so I don't "know" the official muzzle velocity - but it was awfully anemic feeling. Similar to the feel of shooting a 22 caliber rifle...you hear it, but you don't feel it...

The H&R Magnum felt powerful - because it generates 17,000 to 21,000 PSI - which is about 6,000 to 10,000 more PSI than the current Russian (Fiocchi, HotShot) anemic target rounds. It definitely changed our consideration of the round and revolver. While it is not as accurate, it is cleaner to shoot and more powerful than the anemic target rounds. At 12 to 15 yds, it's accuracy was comparable to the Russian 7.62 Nagant rd - only when we moved beyond this range did we see a difference in accuracy, at 50 yds it was VERY noticeable.

Now when I take it to the range, I shoot the milsurp stuff - because it comes in at around $.47/rd - Means I can take it to the range for about $50.

When it's NOT at the range, I keep the 32 H&R Magnum in it...it's somewhere on my bookshelf, in my office, near a copy of Natan Sharansky's "Fear No Evil"...

...but to re-emphasize GOPGUY's comment - bulged cases make me shudder...I also read that the reason the gas seal rounds are anemic - is because the modern ammo manufacturers (i.e., Fiocchi and HotShot) actually INTEND the rounds to match the performance of the Russian target rds...because they were reminded by their liability lawyers that the rounds may actually be fired through 70 to 113 year old pistols...

I may have more comfort with this because I know a bit about metal, stress, and age hardening of tool steel - but some may argue that has given me a false sense of security...

To give some perspective on my point of view - let me offer a story: before I bought my Nagant M1895, I was initially very intrigued by the new S&W Air Weight .38 Special - but after reading and comparing findings the 38 seemed (to me) MUCH more cringe-worthy!! While I know we're talking some big advancements in design, and maybe steel quality - the specs CLEARLY show that the S&W has a 5 shot cylinder/chamber wall of .059" - while the Nagant M1895 checks in with a 7 shot cylinder/chamber wall of .079" - and this .38 comes matched to an ALUMINUM frame (...which are built to withstand 17,000 to 22,000 PSI in a non +P load)!!!???

So there is actually MORE steel in a Nagant Revolver chamber than there is in the new S&W .38 Special revolver chamber!

...thats why I'm not too worried about firing 32 H&R Magnum rounds in my Nagant Revolver. I think the heavy steel cylinder was over-engineered originally. Thus, I have zero fear of a catastrophic failure due to higher pressure - but you should probably decide if you're comfortable with this.

[Many of the articles/blog I read before firing this round had a common theme somewhere near the end - "Do NOT under ANY circumstances fire the .327 Federal through a Nagant M1895 Revolver...so I'll repeat it, too...this round produces more than double the pressure as the 32 H&R Magnum! To handle the higher pressure, Ruger and Federal designed the casing a tad thicker...meaning the cases WON'T bulge, but all that extra pressure will expand very rapidly...and while the cylinder MIGHT handle it, the thin strap at the top of the frame would likely fail - sending the entire cylinder back towards the shooter!).

Anyway, I'm no ballistics expert. If you get a sense of the heebee jeebee's thinking about firing 32 H&R Magnum rounds through a 70(+) year old revolver...stick with the rounds designed for it!
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  #16  
Old 08-07-2012, 08:00 PM
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It will be fine. been shooting 32HR and SW long for years. Wrap some 'scotch' tape around the case to help reduce the bulging, it does make a difference.
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  #17  
Old 08-08-2012, 12:33 AM
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It will be fine. been shooting 32HR and SW long for years. Wrap some 'scotch' tape around the case to help reduce the bulging, it does make a difference.
Hey, great idea! So, when using this low-tech sabot - do you allow the tape to overlap/double, or do you just single wrap it to ensure that it aligns with the barrel...or does that matter?
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  #18  
Old 08-08-2012, 12:36 AM
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Also, I am trying to locate the article, but I read somewhere in my rumblings on this subject, that the bullet diameter for 7.62 Nagant (7.62 x 38r) - is the same as those for the .32 H&R Mag, the .32 Long the .32 S&W short...that the designation of .32 caliber is a misnomer.

I'll probably post it tomorrow...for any who are interested...for now, now ees time to sleep...
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  #19  
Old 08-08-2012, 02:44 PM
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Hey, great idea! So, when using this low-tech sabot - do you allow the tape to overlap/double, or do you just single wrap it to ensure that it aligns with the barrel...or does that matter?
What ever your cylinder will take without causing extraction issues. And no, the 32 is not the actual diameter of the bullet. 7.9mm=.312" and x38R is 7.49mm=.295". 32S&WL,32H&R, and x38R are very interchangeable. You can also find those 32ACP cylinders for like $70, but you'll have to fit them to each pistol.
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Last edited by einheit 13; 08-08-2012 at 02:55 PM.
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